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I hear stories all the time from herp keepers that usually start with - "A friend told me" "The pet store said" and "The vet said".
Please understand that by no means am I saying that I know more than a vet lol I will be the first to say I absolutely do not . There are some
instances that just make me shake my head and sadly a reptile has been put at risk, died, overloaded with unnecessary drugs. Bad advice
regarding husbandry and much more because we have trusted the advice from "A friend", "The pet store" and quite disturbingly also "a vet".
I am not impugning all pet stores and vets in general. There are many very excellent vets out there that specialize in reptiles.
My problem is that people including myself look at PhD, M.D, D.V.M's as "Gods" like they know everything, we put so much faith in everything that is
said, advice given and drugs prescribed - the danger lies in when in this case a D.V.M (Doctor of Veterinary Medicine) cannot say "I don't know".
We go to them to seek help for our beloved reptile pets and TRUST everything that is told to us without question.
Vets are humans too and we all make mistakes but when you are put into a position of trust and authority when they are unsure of something they
need to say "I don't know - let me check into it and I'll get back to you" instead of being afraid of looking less in our eyes.
My writing this page has been prompted by several stories that I have been told and I decided that it needs to be said - "The vet" and "The pet
store" do not know everything. Sadly several people I have spoken to learned the hard way.
Story #1
Reptile owner takes his animal to the vet since she hadn't been herself lately. The vet says (without testing) oh your animal has pin worms I will have
to treat the animal for them. Reptile owner says - How do you know? You didn't test her. Vet says I can tell by looking at her. Reptile owner asked if
he could watch as he gives her the meds so he will know how to do it. Vet says no (firmly) and disappears with the animal into the basement of his
clinic. He returns with the animal a short time later and reptile owner asks (as he has every right to do so) what did you give her? Vet refuses to
divulge this information (can you believe that?!). Reptile owner becomes agitated and insists on knowing what was given to HIS animal and the vet
continues to refuse to give the name of the drug. The vet claims it is a one time dose (no such thing) for deworming but offered him the OPTION to
do a follow up dose in 2 weeks for the bargain price of $50.00. Vet tells him to bring in a fecal sample in a few days (for $50). Reptile owner quite
annoyed at this point pays his bill and lets the vet know exactly what he thinks of him. Vet returns reptile owners call the next day inquiring as to why
his animal is violently vomiting and has violent diarrhea. Reptile owner insists on knowing what was given to his animal. Vet begins to rant at the
reptile owner stating he's been doing this for 20+ years and how dare he question him and ask what medication he gave and informs the reptile
owner he is now black listed from his clinic. Reptile Owner's animal goes into a downward spiral and he takes her to my personal vet. Ultimately she
had to be euthanized as she was dying a slow death. Reptile Owner contacts the original vet and insists on a refund for killing his animal with the
mystery medication he administered to her. Original Vet complies and issues a prompt refund.
I have my suspicions as to what was administered. The behavior & attitude of this vet is completely disgusting. Don't ever let a vet make you feel
like your animals health and what is given to treat it is none of your business. You have every right to know!!! Reptile Owner did insist repeatedly to
no avail. If you are ever in a situation like this ask the vet prior to him taking her off for meds what he will be giving them and if he refuses. Thank
him and collect your dragon and leave. You have every right to know what your reptile is being medicated with!
Story #2
New-Reptile-Purchaser just finishes buying a reptile from a large pet store chain, he begins purchasing everything that he thinks he needs. The
reptile dept employee begins telling him the things that bearded dragons require. He tells him bearded dragons only use red lights and only require
UV light for the first 6 months of their life. That if he keeps UV on him longer than that it will kill him! New-Reptile-Purchaser collects all the items he
just bought and goes home with his new bearded dragon and supplies. A few months later New-Reptile-Purchaser decides to look on the net for a
local bearded dragon breeder because he is worried about his dragon. I speak with him and learn of the advice that was given and how his
enclosure was set up and I told him he needed to change things immediately. He orders the new proper lights from me and after speaking with him I
decide to go visit him and his dragon and bring the new items. Much to my dismay I see with my own eyes the set up he had (tank was lovely) but
lighting was all wrong. Dragon was not well. The UV was not strong enough, it was too far, the enclosure was not warm enough and dragons do
NOT require red lights 24/7. In fact I don't recommend red lights at all for pogona vitticeps. Dragons thrive in bright white light. The brighter the
better. We quickly altered the set up for his dragon with the new items including a digital thermometer, good white heat light and proper UV at the
correct distance from the basking spot.
Sadly, I hear stories like the ones above all the time. I could fill pages and pages on my site full of stories from people about what this vet said, this
person said, this pet store said.
Story #3
Reptile owner notices that something is "off" with his female dragon. He takes a poop sample to the vet. When results come in he goes back to the
vet to hear the results and follow-up. Vet states they found coccidia in the dragons sample and sells him a whack of medication to administer to his
dragon - two of which were injectionable! They were prescribed: Fenbendazole (1x a week for 3 weeks), Baytril intramuscular injections for 10 days,
Metronidazole and Thiabendazole. All to treat coccidia!? Reptile owner then tells me the vet said they found "allot" in the fecal and it was necessary
for the dragon to be on all these medications - simultaneously.
OK, starting from the top. Fenbendazole is for treating pinworms (oxyurids). With the dosing schedule the vet prescribed it will not kill anything!
Fenbendazole must be taken for 4 days on, 10 days off, 4 days back on. That is a complete treatment for oxyurids. Reason for such a schedule is
because the Fenbendazole ONLY kills the pinworms - not the eggs! It takes approximately 10 days before the eggs hatch and reach sexual maturity
so the repeated dose 10 days later is to kill the hatched pinworms BEFORE they are able to reproduce again. Not to mention that you cannot treat
oxyurids and coccidia simultaneously. You need to treat the pinworms FIRST then proceed to treat the coccidia. Then lets discuss the baytril
injections. First off... Why is this dragon being prescribed baytril?! I asked the reptile owner did his dragon show signs of respiratory infection? He
said no. He stated that the vet listened to the dragons lungs and heard an RI (respiratory infection "brewing"). Lets assume the vet was correct and
did hear an RI coming on -WHY prescribe injectionable Baytril? This is a fairly new reptile owner and he told the vet he wasn't comfortable giving
the injections so why not prescribe oral baytril? Not only did he have to inject his dragon but he had to inject it in a MUSCLE in the back of the hind
leg! Crazy! The thiabendazole - the dragon had no strongyles so this is all a mystery. The Metronidazole can be used for treatment of coccidia but
as fore mentioned you cannot treat coccidia and oxyurids simultaneously. She also directed him to give it to her for 4 days?! FOUR days?
Treatment for coccidia is a long treatment. It's a whopping 28 day treatment so 4 days of treatment is going to do nothing at all - well I stand
corrected, it will accomplish one thing - to make the coccidia resistant to that medication.
Reptile owner contacted me 2 months after he did all this medication and wondered why his dragon was still ill. This is when he told me everything
that had happened, told me the prescriptions he was prescribed - which by the way cost him a whopping $200. After talking with him for hours, we
decided to start his dragon over from scratch. I gave him the proper dosing schedule for his dragon and instructed him to treat for the oxyurids first,
then treat the coccidia afterwards. When he was done all the treatments to take another sample into this self proclaimed reptile expert (actually says
that on her shingle).
What I am hoping that people take away from this page is to do your research. Don't listen to one person, one site, one vet.... Read as much as you
can and pull common threads of information from each piece that you read to find the answers and truth. Don't let anyone make you feel you
cannot question their reasoning or solution. You are on a quest for knowledge and there are no stupid questions.
When someone cannot say "I don't know", "let me look that up" or let me consult with a colleague... in these situations it is the reptile that suffers!
Please understand that by no means am I saying that I know more than a vet lol I will be the first to say I absolutely do not . There are some
instances that just make me shake my head and sadly a reptile has been put at risk, died, overloaded with unnecessary drugs. Bad advice
regarding husbandry and much more because we have trusted the advice from "A friend", "The pet store" and quite disturbingly also "a vet".
I am not impugning all pet stores and vets in general. There are many very excellent vets out there that specialize in reptiles.
My problem is that people including myself look at PhD, M.D, D.V.M's as "Gods" like they know everything, we put so much faith in everything that is
said, advice given and drugs prescribed - the danger lies in when in this case a D.V.M (Doctor of Veterinary Medicine) cannot say "I don't know".
We go to them to seek help for our beloved reptile pets and TRUST everything that is told to us without question.
Vets are humans too and we all make mistakes but when you are put into a position of trust and authority when they are unsure of something they
need to say "I don't know - let me check into it and I'll get back to you" instead of being afraid of looking less in our eyes.
My writing this page has been prompted by several stories that I have been told and I decided that it needs to be said - "The vet" and "The pet
store" do not know everything. Sadly several people I have spoken to learned the hard way.
Story #1
Reptile owner takes his animal to the vet since she hadn't been herself lately. The vet says (without testing) oh your animal has pin worms I will have
to treat the animal for them. Reptile owner says - How do you know? You didn't test her. Vet says I can tell by looking at her. Reptile owner asked if
he could watch as he gives her the meds so he will know how to do it. Vet says no (firmly) and disappears with the animal into the basement of his
clinic. He returns with the animal a short time later and reptile owner asks (as he has every right to do so) what did you give her? Vet refuses to
divulge this information (can you believe that?!). Reptile owner becomes agitated and insists on knowing what was given to HIS animal and the vet
continues to refuse to give the name of the drug. The vet claims it is a one time dose (no such thing) for deworming but offered him the OPTION to
do a follow up dose in 2 weeks for the bargain price of $50.00. Vet tells him to bring in a fecal sample in a few days (for $50). Reptile owner quite
annoyed at this point pays his bill and lets the vet know exactly what he thinks of him. Vet returns reptile owners call the next day inquiring as to why
his animal is violently vomiting and has violent diarrhea. Reptile owner insists on knowing what was given to his animal. Vet begins to rant at the
reptile owner stating he's been doing this for 20+ years and how dare he question him and ask what medication he gave and informs the reptile
owner he is now black listed from his clinic. Reptile Owner's animal goes into a downward spiral and he takes her to my personal vet. Ultimately she
had to be euthanized as she was dying a slow death. Reptile Owner contacts the original vet and insists on a refund for killing his animal with the
mystery medication he administered to her. Original Vet complies and issues a prompt refund.
I have my suspicions as to what was administered. The behavior & attitude of this vet is completely disgusting. Don't ever let a vet make you feel
like your animals health and what is given to treat it is none of your business. You have every right to know!!! Reptile Owner did insist repeatedly to
no avail. If you are ever in a situation like this ask the vet prior to him taking her off for meds what he will be giving them and if he refuses. Thank
him and collect your dragon and leave. You have every right to know what your reptile is being medicated with!
Story #2
New-Reptile-Purchaser just finishes buying a reptile from a large pet store chain, he begins purchasing everything that he thinks he needs. The
reptile dept employee begins telling him the things that bearded dragons require. He tells him bearded dragons only use red lights and only require
UV light for the first 6 months of their life. That if he keeps UV on him longer than that it will kill him! New-Reptile-Purchaser collects all the items he
just bought and goes home with his new bearded dragon and supplies. A few months later New-Reptile-Purchaser decides to look on the net for a
local bearded dragon breeder because he is worried about his dragon. I speak with him and learn of the advice that was given and how his
enclosure was set up and I told him he needed to change things immediately. He orders the new proper lights from me and after speaking with him I
decide to go visit him and his dragon and bring the new items. Much to my dismay I see with my own eyes the set up he had (tank was lovely) but
lighting was all wrong. Dragon was not well. The UV was not strong enough, it was too far, the enclosure was not warm enough and dragons do
NOT require red lights 24/7. In fact I don't recommend red lights at all for pogona vitticeps. Dragons thrive in bright white light. The brighter the
better. We quickly altered the set up for his dragon with the new items including a digital thermometer, good white heat light and proper UV at the
correct distance from the basking spot.
Sadly, I hear stories like the ones above all the time. I could fill pages and pages on my site full of stories from people about what this vet said, this
person said, this pet store said.
Story #3
Reptile owner notices that something is "off" with his female dragon. He takes a poop sample to the vet. When results come in he goes back to the
vet to hear the results and follow-up. Vet states they found coccidia in the dragons sample and sells him a whack of medication to administer to his
dragon - two of which were injectionable! They were prescribed: Fenbendazole (1x a week for 3 weeks), Baytril intramuscular injections for 10 days,
Metronidazole and Thiabendazole. All to treat coccidia!? Reptile owner then tells me the vet said they found "allot" in the fecal and it was necessary
for the dragon to be on all these medications - simultaneously.
OK, starting from the top. Fenbendazole is for treating pinworms (oxyurids). With the dosing schedule the vet prescribed it will not kill anything!
Fenbendazole must be taken for 4 days on, 10 days off, 4 days back on. That is a complete treatment for oxyurids. Reason for such a schedule is
because the Fenbendazole ONLY kills the pinworms - not the eggs! It takes approximately 10 days before the eggs hatch and reach sexual maturity
so the repeated dose 10 days later is to kill the hatched pinworms BEFORE they are able to reproduce again. Not to mention that you cannot treat
oxyurids and coccidia simultaneously. You need to treat the pinworms FIRST then proceed to treat the coccidia. Then lets discuss the baytril
injections. First off... Why is this dragon being prescribed baytril?! I asked the reptile owner did his dragon show signs of respiratory infection? He
said no. He stated that the vet listened to the dragons lungs and heard an RI (respiratory infection "brewing"). Lets assume the vet was correct and
did hear an RI coming on -WHY prescribe injectionable Baytril? This is a fairly new reptile owner and he told the vet he wasn't comfortable giving
the injections so why not prescribe oral baytril? Not only did he have to inject his dragon but he had to inject it in a MUSCLE in the back of the hind
leg! Crazy! The thiabendazole - the dragon had no strongyles so this is all a mystery. The Metronidazole can be used for treatment of coccidia but
as fore mentioned you cannot treat coccidia and oxyurids simultaneously. She also directed him to give it to her for 4 days?! FOUR days?
Treatment for coccidia is a long treatment. It's a whopping 28 day treatment so 4 days of treatment is going to do nothing at all - well I stand
corrected, it will accomplish one thing - to make the coccidia resistant to that medication.
Reptile owner contacted me 2 months after he did all this medication and wondered why his dragon was still ill. This is when he told me everything
that had happened, told me the prescriptions he was prescribed - which by the way cost him a whopping $200. After talking with him for hours, we
decided to start his dragon over from scratch. I gave him the proper dosing schedule for his dragon and instructed him to treat for the oxyurids first,
then treat the coccidia afterwards. When he was done all the treatments to take another sample into this self proclaimed reptile expert (actually says
that on her shingle).
What I am hoping that people take away from this page is to do your research. Don't listen to one person, one site, one vet.... Read as much as you
can and pull common threads of information from each piece that you read to find the answers and truth. Don't let anyone make you feel you
cannot question their reasoning or solution. You are on a quest for knowledge and there are no stupid questions.
When someone cannot say "I don't know", "let me look that up" or let me consult with a colleague... in these situations it is the reptile that suffers!
Written by: Robin Moniz 2008
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